Curse

Judas Paladin · Aug 31, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

.....i can't help but notice the date on which that was posted.

LifeInfusion · Aug 31, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

I'm getting collector's armor to retest (it has the 80+20 vs. physical). My argument for higher AL still stands.

-2 recieved still isn't as good as 5-10AL more. It is like wearing a 5 or 11 defense shield with -2 recieved , instead of a 16 defense with no mods.

EDIT:
Against a physical elemental attack as Aftershock, swapping out knight's for collector's (which has the same stats as gladiator's but no additional energy) did not affect the damage.

Theos · Sep 01, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehly

So you are saying that we need tanks with better armor? Like, in PvP, when I'm a lowly Ele with a sword, I have to wait longer for the bastard to die? Warriors already get more armor than Mesmers... and mesmers are cooler... and deserve better armor and stuff. So I don't agree with this petition for other reasons that I can't explain because I'm under the influence.

Mesmer armour is fine, its the balance to a mesmer. What a mesmer needs is more variety in armour, its either +energy or +defense -_-". I personally go for the royal looking +15 while casting

It looks cool.

On Topic: The knights armour needs a buff, it is truly the shaft of armours (including its cooler twin the Ascalon Armour). I like the idea of increasing its defense bonus per piece, so go to +20 or something. Though it will still see little use in PvP since Glads is far superior with the energy bonus.

Red Sonya · Sep 01, 2005, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Yeah if they made Knights armor with the +20 AL without energy that would work and fixed if it's not already fixed each piece being needed to get the dmg reduction for that area of defense. This global dmg reduction for just wearing one piece just doesn't seem right for the armor. No one in their right mind would ever use a complete set of Ascalon/Knights as it is now if only one piece is required to get the global dmg reduction. But, as individual defensive per area hit and adding +20 AL to it would make it a more viable choice for those that aren't into being smiters and such that require 25 energy to cast. As it stands now though with superior rune of absorption and one piece of ascalons/knights and a shield one is preventing 7 dmg per strike on them. If they fixed it right, then gladiators (w/shield) would only be getting 5 dmg reduction per strike and knights would be getting the 7 dmg per strike reduction. But, gladiators (w/shield) would have more energy and that seems fair enough to me. It gives them basically 1-1/2 more skills to use at 5pt energy costs, so the dmg from that would compensate for the 7 dmg reduction of the complete set of Knights armor if it worked correctly. Thought it might overpower knights vs platemal wearers then and then there would be a cry from platemale wearers cause they would have the least melee defense although they have the best elemental defense.

It's easy to see though that Gladiators is the best melee armor though. It's really not AL that makes the Gladiators gear a better choice, it's the fact that a Gladiator can maneuver better than someone in plate because of the weight of the armor. They needed to add a dexterity modifier to armor to make it more understandable why one is better than another in melee. But, Knights/Ascalon definitely needs some work.

00039 · Sep 01, 2005, 07:54 AM // 07:54

I think they should modify the defense of the 3 armor sets to something like....

75 Base Armor for glads since they wear less armor after all and the energy should come with a price

Knight, Ascalon, plate, and wyvern's 10 Armor vs. Physical should be increased to 15ish to balance it out a bit

Amand · Sep 01, 2005, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Less armour doesn't equate in worse protection, it improves speed/agility and that often won vs. fully iron/plate-clad if we remember the light-armoured Mongols vs. heavy Western Knights in the medieval period. In Guild Wars we do not encounter heavy arrow showers or massive "bombardment" by slingers. A man-high Tower Shield doesn't protect better than the ornate buckler as it did in reality (against projectiles). However I can agree in a sense that platemail looks too robust to be inferior than gladiator's but armour is not everything in battle as history often proved.

LifeInfusion · Sep 01, 2005, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Though it might overpower knights vs platemal wearers then and then there would be a cry from platemale wearers cause they would have the least melee defense although they have the best elemental defense.

It's easy to see though that Gladiators is the best melee armor though. It's really not AL that makes the Gladiators gear a better choice, it's the fact that a Gladiator can maneuver better than someone in plate because of the weight of the armor.

Platemail wearers always will have the bonus against elemental. Gladiator's and knight's is meant as 80AL baseline, not 85. The tradeoff is 5 elemental for 5 physical. I wouldn't mind if knight's was increased to 80+15. But then it would be subpar anyway (5 AL less vs physical and elemental). If you are fighting elemental mobs only, platemail is the way to go if you use adrenaline/signets and don't need energy.

They don't need a dex modifier. The "dex" is the energy

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00039

75 Base Armor for glads since they wear less armor after all and the energy should come with a price
Knight, Ascalon, plate, and wyvern's 10 Armor vs. Physical should be increased to 15ish to balance it out a bit

In Beta Gladiator's was 80AL flat, with the energy. People whined about it, and they made it 80+20. Knight's was 80+20. Now its 80+10. Odd isn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amand

Less armour doesn't equate in worse protection, it improves speed/agility and that often won vs. fully iron/plate-clad if we remember the light-armoured Mongols vs. heavy Western Knights in the medieval period. In Guild Wars we do not encounter heavy arrow showers or massive "bombardment" by slingers.

Siege Wurms. Wurms in general. Things that bite. Tell me a full suit of knight/plate is going to be worse off (practically) in Guild Wars, not history. Two leather straps is not going to protect your abdomen from a animal bite. Chain mail like collector's might.

Mongols won because of their horses and marksmanship. Medieval knights wore full platemail and had hand to hand combat or horses for JOUSTING. They did not use bows.

Age · Sep 01, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Would this be any good as a combo.I have set of Knights armor both top and bottom with a minor runes of absorb both on top and bottom.I am planning on getting gladiator boots and guanlets and a Knights helemt.What do you think of this set up or would a better helmet be better I don't like platemail very much atleast not the male version and this for a female player?What are you suggestions?

Dzan · Sep 01, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Absorbtion runes don't stack and neither does the Knight's bonus.

If you have one minor absorbtion, it covers your whole body. If you have one piece of knights it covers your whole body.

Ristaron · Sep 01, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

[...] I still like ringmail btw [...] .

All respect I had for you is now gone.
Ringmail makes your character bow-legged and barrel-chested, the typical pub-addicted village a**hole. It is possibly the worst looking armour I have ever seen.

Amand · Sep 01, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Siege Wurms. Wurms in general. Things that bite. Tell me a full suit of knight/plate is going to be worse off (practically) in Guild Wars, not history. Two leather straps is not going to protect your abdomen from a animal bite. Chain mail like collector's might.

Mongols won because of their horses and marksmanship. Medieval knights wore full platemail and had hand to hand combat or horses for JOUSTING. They did not use bows.

Huh? You might read up a bit about mongol warfare, they had heavy cataphractoi/lancers too. Even in Hand to Hand combat the European Knights stood no chance. Light-armed Bedouin cavalry defeated heavy-armoured Sassanians abd Byzantians, though, to behonest the Sassanians were more than exhausted.

Next time please quote the whole posting, not dismember it and leave out a crucial part. As I said I agree that platemail looks too robust to be inferior to Gladiator's.

Age · Sep 01, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

Absorbtion runes don't stack and neither does the Knight's bonus.

If you have one minor absorbtion, it covers your whole body. If you have one piece of knights it covers your whole body.

So what you are saying is I only needed one rune of absorbtion on just one piece say the top?Then I could of put a minor vigor to increase my HP as with major rune of strengh it is now lowered it.Thanks

btw to Ristaron don't lose all respect for me ringmail looks nice in pre and around ascalon.

LifeInfusion · Sep 01, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

All respect I had for you is now gone.
Ringmail makes your character bow-legged and barrel-chested, the typical pub-addicted village a**hole. It is possibly the worst looking armour I have ever seen.

I think he means the collector's ringmail, which is more like chainmail, not ringmail.

Back on topic. You people are going off on a tangent.

Gerbill · Sep 02, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

mk.. I've read this.. still a few questions just to make sure.

- if you have a knights piece, it has global reduction, equal to major absorbtion ?
- if you also put a rune on a piece does it stack with the one knights armor piece ?

is Gladiators just the way to go or is platemail worth it slightly ?

LifeInfusion · Sep 04, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

gladiator's if you use sword or need energy

platemail for high elemental resistance

gladiator for high physical resistance

one knight's piece = major absorbtion.

BigTru · Sep 04, 2005, 01:44 AM // 01:44

It's probably been said in this thread before, but I definitaly think they should make it non-universal per piece.

Weezer_Blue · Sep 04, 2005, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

All forms of "Damage Absorption" are locational, not 'Universal".

i.e:
If you put a Superior Absorption Rune to a Knights Chest Armor piece, you will get a -2-3 total -5 damage reduced when the hits landed on your chest.

This is a fallacy. Please make sure you're correct before you start posting.

All absorbtion effects, including those of Knight's and Ascalon armour are universal, and do not stack with themselves.

Seissor · Sep 04, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

So with knights armor being soo pffft,I chucked it all for gladiator (15k goodness) but kept two pieces of knights armor on my char, so -2 reduction in dmg, or still -1 Cuz iff -1 reduction my char is getting some new 15k glad boots.

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · Sep 04, 2005, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Correct me if I am wrong, but one piece of Knights (regardless of slot) is -2 reduction? I can check this whole debate tomorrow when I have access to my PC. Anyways, as it has been said and some people seem to be confused, only one piece of "Knights" is required for this -2? damage reduction. Then you add a superior rune (again, like "Knights", is universal reduction, and can be put wherever) of absorbtion for another 5? I'm not sure on numbers, as I haven't been on my W/Nec in a little while. Someone just clarify the reduction numbers for me or I can post them tomorrow evening after I do some checking.

Basic Equipment set:
Glads Chest/Legs for mana
Knights boots (less chance to be hit) for -2? reduction
Glads Gloves / Stonefist gloves (for mana, or knockdown, however you play)
Then your weapon helmet mod

Anyone who wears full Knights is at a severe disadvantage (for the sake of redundance, I will not explain), and should only be doing so because they like the "look" or "feel" of a "harder" armor to play in. If they wear it in assumption that -damage stacks, or that the -damage is not universal, then they need to be told otherwise and ridiculed for their ignorance.

This is to clarify for anyone who is confused as to why "Knights" armor is obsolete when compared to the other sets that are out there.

FYI, I actually prefer to wear Knights when I PvE, just because of the extra challenge it provides. I don't like the fact that almost every player in this game has to follow a strict cookie-cutter character sheet in order to be effective. Challenge is lacking in this game, as is ingenuity. Whenever a new build comes out, everyone runs it until a new one is discovered, and they jump on that bandwagon.
But of course, I would not be caught dead in PvP with full Knights. For obvious reasons.
A little off topic on the last tid-bit there, but oh well.

medikamen · Sep 04, 2005, 11:53 AM // 11:53

it sucks that the different pieces of knight armor don't stack, what's the point in having the whole set???